IF there is GOD which one...
Atheists agnostics and creationists all people would or should agree that we do not feel complete ..even physically this is reflected by our constantly needing to eat food our need for companionship approval or whatever else we understand to be wanting needing or desiring with or without out a God we understand this statement to be true "we are incomplete"
Now I am speaking as if there is a GOD and what GOD makes the most sense .. I am talking about what GOD makes sense with what we see if God exists.
We have nature that is grumpy and kills us off ..be it tornado tsunami earth quake pestilence ..these problems I will not place on man unless they are causing pestilence so on.. .. Murders rapes violence hungry starving babies and things we know we can help and prevent ..things that the parents should probably have refrained from producing children in that environment, do to lack of how not to have them or self control ..basically the 99% of things that is wrong, I lay directly on us.
What God would be fair to put an innocent people on a planet that would kill them off? no reason just for what, kicks and giggles ..what God would be fair to have us die physically and watch loved ones die off? ..allowing for the body to be killed by murders and so on .. for no reason ..see this gets rid of all "only love" God religions immediately .. .. I am left after pondering this and seeing that yes God may very well be punishing us for something so it makes sense that if man did something first, like disobeyed something, then I can say a God needing to react in a way that God feels fits the crime ..This God cannot sin or we would not be under punishment this would not be a perfect God if that was the case and would justly deserve to have punishment back ..this God would be wrong and it is sin to punish sin if this God was sinning. This God Created us in a way that we take full responsibility for our actions . This is done by the natural in completion in us from being created ..NOW when i say created I do not mean poof made whole I mean by whatever means this God chose, be it evolutionary processes allowed to just go unchecked or tweaked from time to time of full blown made it all whole ..does not matter at this time just what GOD is there ,what his nature is ..
we have a choice to do good or bad ..and this ability is a beautiful thing and is good in itself. So to desire is not bad to desire the wrong thing is sinful desire any desire that leads to sin is a sinful desire, so we should choose to change this. ..to do the right thing is good to do the wrong thing is bad , so it seems when we do morally the wrong thing not the wrong thing like putting a screw in the wrong place, though this does show lack of perfection lol.
This thought process of evil not being sin but being incomplete state which state produced the physical manifestation of chaos which chaos allows for choice and freedom ..(if we could only move one way and think one thought this is not chaotic its robotic ..but if we take chaos and structure it as we need we have freedom and more of it the more we can choose from things and think more flexible) Now we can see how something Bad did not come from the good but did indeed appear from the choice, the choice we could have not made ..the same bad choices we make even now ..those that say why am i punished i did not bla bla bla ..ya you did ,all have sinned, when someone perfect says I do not understand why all the pain, then I will listen to your gripes of why am I suffering ..
What i get out of what i see is a GOD that exists , he would have to be punishing us if you do not feel like it is one then just look at some peoples existence place yourself there and see what they are going through, things you would never want or imagine ..if a GOD exists that allows someone to go through this and made this possible, would he not be a total jerk if it was not some type of punishment? This leads me to know it is because, i already stated I believe in a GOD that is using this type of punishing for crimes against him. the old testament bible GOD, this fits what i see in nature and this is the best fit i see, we are punished for sins.So aiming more at the God of the bible I say that When God speaks he does so from his very nature, not him deciding hmmm what punishment will I create if you do wrong against me? "I suppose ill do this" ..Gods,very nature,very perfect nature..The natural law inside himself says "the wages of sin is death" this is just a fact, period ..Adam had full knowledge that he would die if he ate ..Eve as well ..she knew the rules .. Adam sins and here we are.
SO understand no fault can be placed on a GOD that created a being that can make choices of their own will..understand this, can we be mad at a GOD that created us because we would fall when created? would it not be more of a crime to not create us, knowing that a lot of us would indeed be made how he wanted us to be to begin with? But if God chose to not make us because others chose differently and of their own free will how can that be fair or a righteous act? ..Just because God would know in advance how things would turn out does not mean he made us choose those things does it? ..NO.So if he did not create us, it would be a Crime against himself for him to allow sin to prevent and to stop him from making a creation that would eventually be immortal and sinless. if sin were allowed to stop this creation before sin or a crime ever even took place this would be a crime! .even if in the end he got just one person out of billions, this one innocent person should not be extinct because of sin! why should the innocent one have to be erased because of our choices we make? that would be the unfair thing!
Again we are pondering the Bible God because of what I have seen in nature and mans torments and I could choose only to believe in a God that is justified and fair to allow or to judge in this way, only on those that are not innocent and that have indeed did some actions that warranted this. ANY other God that would put this on its creation without just reason, is an anarchist ,that just chooses what it feels like putting on its creation and does not seem to have lines or boundaries at all ..and is the direct cause of all violence and sin that exists here and now. This God would have had to willfully create us with bad intentions built in and to do bad and acts of bad, so we can what? learn!? pretty sure I can learn in another way !!! Worse, there would be no real sins that we do since this creator put it on us and in us to do! So why are we punishing ourselves why jail we can all do what we want to ..besides each of us, to not be able to stop what ever sin it is we do, we will mess up eventually and do these sin/s, it gets real bad, real fast If we do not understand this as punishment and that the actions which are sinful goes against the GOD that created us! which actions we chose and choose to do ..we have to take responsibility for our own crimes!! .. so we will dive into the Bible are God no
IN the beginning .. this is before anything existed that has ever been ..we have GOD a perfect being, ready to create this creative work our universe and all in it and it will be less than him less complete .. just being made already puts you naturally lower than an unmade God which makes you. We are also lacking in being eternal(goes without saying since we have been made) this natural lessening from perfect to good, not to mention other factors like it could be destroyed (unless made not to be?)Keep in mind less than does not make it sin ,less than or incomplete will be referred to as evil not sin ..evil is more of a force that drives desires it may seem odd to say it that way but God said he created both good and evil the evil spoke of her is the natural lack of being as complete as God and this does indeed drive us to do, to be better, to desire to be filled.Be it bad or good a lack of or an in completion in us gives a drive to try to fill this void and good or bad can result from this (freewill ) as we try to fill this void in us, be it to strive to be as good as we can or to try and get that shiny new car we feel desire and wants for. This is The effect of not being complete. The creation, it is good, because we can be all we can be,and created by the perfect being ..God..So i would say if a GOD existed I believe this God would classify as perfect. God created the heavens above and the earth below. how
long did this take ?..it could be literal days as I've thought ..but
there are plenty of evidences that they could have been 1000
year days even 7 thousand year days longer ..the language used in
genesis allows for long spans of time however I would need more proof
not so much for the how old the earth is more for the creation on top of
this earth..this time line in genesis can also be a representation of
ages from one creative works to the next ..
Touching
on evolution ,most believe in evolution in the way scientific definition of most forms of evolution is made the regular person calls it adaptation not quite seeing the difference in a worm that can now eat corn that it could not before or animal that adapts to the cold they see these both as adapting to them the creatures have adapted
to eating things they could not ..what happens inside of this creature
is a type of evolution most would agree with and those that do not
realize adaptation does not fit the scientific term for this scenario
,evolution fits this. however I would like to see those changes under a microscope happening and not that there were so many of these microbes or what ever that one happened to already be able to eat this type of corn or whatever else it evolved to do.
Now what I and others do have an issue with is all
things coming from the same "goo" maybe if it was a goo factory and
things were mutating out of this so various types of creatures were
coming ..this makes more sense to me and not because of kinds like in
the bible ..but because evolution is more flexible then to be bottle
necked into bringing one type of life form.
I
do say these long ages would be hard to rationalize without a slow
build up of all of creation, take grass without sunlight growing for a
thousand years on that day .. It would make more sense that if that day
was 1000 years or 7000yrs or ages it would be done in a guided
evolutionary, not saying god is stepping in but that it was set up like a seed long ago to form what we are now.. Now to the Christians or others that
believe in the account of the bible and are reading it literally,
understand I read it literally as well and in doing this you need to be
aware of the tree of life because I still read genesis literally
now ask yourself why
was this tree there at the start? if we are immortal at the start why on
earth do we need a tree of life to eat from? (I am not saying God did
not want us to be immortal I believe it was to be earned) think hard
truly search your heart ..when man was kicked out of the garden what was
said . "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,
to know
good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the
tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" Now if it dawns on you that
if we were eating from the tree of life and all other trees BUT the tree
of knowledge of good and evil it would appear we were NOT made immortal
but were indeed mortal and Gods gift was immortality given by this tree
as long as we remained sinless.
We knew what death was because it is very possible there was a life and death cycle in nature ..this would back up spiritual death was meant by "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die"and why the serpent or devil did not lie by saying in the day you eat of it you shall not surely die ..he told a partial truth ..about the physical state of them after they ate.. Most of us had a hard time with evolution not based on the process but based on life and death before sin and by definition of the kinds (which may very well be a lot more flexible than we think)these are the problems..it is possible that we misunderstood a bit about the spirit of the scripture ..
However
what is said above does not mean it is proof of evolution IE. cat over eons
becoming a zebra..(though in definition this is not scientifically
accurate as what is meant ..the cats off spring mutates slightly and
that one and that one ..and eventually we have a zebra..) This type of
evolution is tough at best to prove. but I am trying to show biblical
wise evolution is not a bible crusher . when God said each shall bring
forth its own kind ..we put kinds in a box to look exactly like the
parent or grandparents ..how do we know what Gods definition of kinds
are? we have no clue! look at some vegetable "kinds" and your head will
spin trying to figure how is that of the same kind?
So my problem with evolution and why it was a bother to me was because of the wages of sin is death ..if evolution of any kind (not evolutionary adaptation) had occurred the problem I had, knowing by all evidences, that is so solid in me, that the bible is the truth and the wages of SIN is death, Evolution would go against this truth with life and DEATH cycles used to bring us to this point ..
this means death arrived before sin!(In my understanding) Now the thing is ,after I reread genesis creation passages again, to see if this could be cleared up. With the question, can you be a Christian and believe in evolution?put it this way with scripture evidence you really can say that physical death was here before Sin! this does not mean I am 100% correct and proof positive, however I can FULLY see the likeliness of it. Again, we see the tree of life was part of the food Man ate from BEFORE the fall and they were removed from the garden because of it.. WHY? Again..so they would not take of it and live forever ,sinful OR more to the point DEAD from sin but could still live physically forever.
The new testament makes it clear we
were all dead in sin ..He sees us as dead after we sinned we can no
longer be in his full presence with sin or we die physically as well
..this is also clearly shown biblically ..as is apparent, the tree of
life keeps you physically alive ..To hammer home the point again,why
would they need this tree of life if they were created immortal?.. it
seems an obvious answer, they were not made immortal . all creation was
very good .. I thought we were made immortal, because of the scripture
the wages of sin is death, but I did not look into what death meant to
God, only what we understand death to mean .. this is not some excuse
,this information was in the bible right from the start. Myself, I have
enough to logically know that life and death cycles were there but
emotional blocks still say no ,I am reading it wrong or something..lol
NOW
How could teams of people say that Adam and Eve died from sin,
without ever explaining what that death meant , I was answered "oh most
likely it was spiritual death" making it seem it was not really fully
known, when one good read clearly shows that it was originally meant to
be a death of spiritual ,with secondary of physical, because of the
scripture lest man reach forth and take of the tree of life and live
forever (physically)..man could NOT undo the original word of God so
"the death" God spoke of is spiritual and no way to remedy that ..
even though physical death would come ,this death was secondary and
even appeared to be a secondary thought scripture wise to prevent a
physical immortality.
So evolution is has to be rejected if sin and physical
death was meant, it does not have to be rejected if sin and spiritual death was meant
with a life death cycle being there all along then the debate will continue on about the age of the earth was the earth extremely old and a not so old creation was made on top? Either way it becomes not so important anymore no where near as I had thought.
So it appears a physical
death was not only normal here but was a natural part of a cycle GOD
himself had made and we as humans where an exception and NOT the
rule!! Because doubtful the fish and sea creatures could get at the tree
of life making there truly be a life death cycle all along and
BIBLICALLY shown.
..but as you will see later much much more is to be brought forth and from a very logical albeit incredibly genius way that makes perfect sense! Keep remembering we are responsible for your choices that we make from the feelings we get! understand this and you lay blame on where it belongs and can justly convict the murderer the rapist all criminals of their crimes as it should be!
NOW bad was chosen and here we are punished, justly for this Bad . the God I see and what I read fits the biblical God, it fits it from nature and from "if their is a GOD which one fits best" ..
God loved us, he could have let us go and moved on and we would all die physically without the tree of life eventually ..or he could have just wiped us out totally ..but he removed the curse of sin in a very ingenious way indeed ..we need someone not cursed under Adam IE ..all in Adam die, does not matter how good you think you are ...
the wages of sin is death this law is from the nature of God not just his idea of what would be a good punishment God is love and a just God.. Again God also is love and wants to show mercy and forgiveness But He cannot break his own nature or natural laws, because it is a crime against himself ..what to do? I know you said a sacrifice for sin right?..okay great! but WHY does this work? HOW can this fulfill his original law and make right the wrong an injustice committed against him, the perfect judge? Furthermore how does this sacrifice not create another crime? this is what has been pondered ..the "how" does it work the spiritual side, ie the natural type of LAW of it ?
Christ "the word"..he is born John 1. "IN the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the Word was GOD" , this self created Being does not fall under a created being that is less than its creator, this is a self created being fully God and fully human I.E. the perfect sacrifice ....a sinless human born of the pure ie virgin
So this self created beings flesh can make the sacrifice ..but still why a sacrifice? how does this actually work to remove sin? couldn't it have been a sheep or another man? NO and there is a perfect explanation why. This sacrifice has to fulfill what needs to be made right in Gods own nature and natural laws it cannot fall short ..a created being is just another creation and falls short at the start! it needs to be fully equal to God the creator because he was the one that created and that the sin was committed against! He has to be fully flesh as the sin was created in flesh ...
So a sacrifice has got to be worth all the sin that is in the world ..Because the damage done was against God the creator, then only God can be
the one that can take payment fully for what he knows is complete justice for crimes
committed against him ..he and he alone knows what he needs to cover for
this payment and he needs this ...The creator of the world is worth that and this sacrifice has to have a value higher than all moral beings creating sin. So to make a perfect balance, because God is a perfect judge and has to have full payment made .. ..not because he chooses like "gee I need this for that" it is a natural repayment that is in his nature to be made ..SIN = Death and that's it,
the Creator that makes himself man is a self created being and is not a being that was made by something else that made this world and this new being fits the value needed for sins past present and future because he came from no beginning and of no end before and he now has a beginning as we and an end ie can die, he is worth the total of creation and infinitely ..And the word was made flesh! ..One may say why not an angel made flesh ? or some believe the creator of this world was not actually the high God ..so these questions are answered sufficiently ,partially from up in this reading and next this
..it is a law of God to not worship a creature ANY created being is a creature and if you worship it you are sinning by turning from God who you are to worship and worshiping another! this is a huge no no for sure and if any created being would allowed this worship of them ,as angels did not even allow themselves to be worshiped Rev 22:9 "Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God" this was an angel talking to John .. now note the difference and remember "worship GOD" stated in that scripture ..John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. This was Thomas when he saw Christ Christ never told him do not worship me..why it is clear you are to only worship GOD!
..So not even an angelic being made by god can sacrifice for all eternity sin of man , because the being was made, they are less than God and are a creature. Any creature allowing this worship as of Thomas, is sinning a great sin and would have never resurrected in the first place, since the act produces sin that is worship of a created being!
God came in the flesh as Jesus , the word was made flesh by himself..the word would be God made flesh and he would be self created ,not just that, God made himself knowing what he needed for our debt to be paid so he could declare all debt paid and he did this without breaking of the law to not worship the creature .. and he would do this by fulfilling all the laws of his own nature required to be perfect. he alone knows all and everyone of those laws as he has perfect knowledge of what is right and what is wrong and is therefore fully aware when a misdeed is done and when it needs to be repaid or not .
NOW the Creator took on flesh ..sinless and perfect .. as shown biblically if you search the bible it will be quite clear and logically he must remain this way ,a perfect sacrifice, so he cannot sin or he cannot be made a sacrifice this is a law... he has to fulfill all prophecy of himself and all of the law ..this takes time ..he must be tempted in every way and remain perfect ..and he did as stated biblically and if not we are still dead in sin and how can a dead man please God?.. Now this is why a sacrifice will remove sin..and how it actually works to remove sin ..even if you disagree about Christ Being God or the value of a sacrifice understand how this sacrifice works in spirit and see the earned rewards given and how they perfectly match the damages done.
The only thing in the universe that could sin against Gods natural law of "the wages of sin is death" at this point ..is,SIN .. now pretend sin is like an entity wondering around you need to lure it make it come in contact with this perfect being ..this gives sin the opportunity to Sin against Gods very nature to break a command of the highest sort ..this one command like we had on command ....that sin is not to kill the perfect ..ie the wages of SIN is death .. by knowing sinful man with evil in their hearts would put a perfect being to death by sinful and evil acts of men and because he was perfect .. it/they did!
The devil tried to remove Christ and make him sin and FAILED (and yes the devil chose on his own free will to fall into whatever desires got him where he is now) ..through sinful man Christ was put to death on the cross.. the wages of "SIN" is death ..Christ had no sin ..this is a breach in the nature of god ..sin committed an ultimate crime and killed not just someone without sin but the Creator of all things the eternal Creator you could do no greater sin ever than this, this sin was great enough for the very essence of sin to be condemned. Father forgive them for they know not what they do is cleared up ..yes it was a prophetic statement from psalms however the why it was said was not cleared up ..it was said to lay no charge on man being influenced to put sin on Christ through whatever means they used ..the fault is laid on the influences behind it the evil and sin itself. here are the rewards to given to Christ for each action committed by sin
Christ was raised up from the grave defeating death (which are the wages of sin but is having a mortal body that can still die payment enough after this crime NO he received an immortal body ,killing death! also after being in hell which was another problem hell should not have had him since he was perfect ,so hell was surrendered to christ and is now under Christ's judgment as is shown in the bible revelations" the keys of hell and death" is given to Christ, ephesians 4:8"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."this happens not because God says so and thinks it a good reward but because he earned it! he fulfilled laws of his own nature without going against his very own will and being! This is not all what of the evil that started it the void ..Ephesians 4:10 "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might FILL all things." final judgement on the incomplete state of the universe this will and is being filled.
its incredible,God put laws in place as a perfect being and he too goes by these laws in and of himself ,at least it seems so since when breaking down this sacrifice it looks to be there was no other way to reconcile mankind with God .So through the sacrifice sin is judged to death in Christ and Christ now represents the Tree of life (in my opinion) and we must take of him to live!, "whosoever believes in me shall not perish but have eternal life" .. by one man, Adam, sin and death ..also by one man Christ, removal of sin and eternal life ..a complete picture and a genius sacrificial move ..
its amazing that Gods very nature has a law that sin broke through evil men and basically sin sinned leading the captor sin death hell into captivity ....the irony of it lol ..so you can see that a sacrifice that would seem like "why on earth would God require that" is thoroughly explained and would show this is the only possible way.. Another aspect that seems to back up what I am saying is that not only did Christ gain power over Sin..he also received full payment back in this form ..hell took him and he can no longer ever be taken there again (at least against his law) he would have been eternally dead but now he receives eternal life ..his body was beat broke and put to death ..he received one that could not every be put to death or break nor be beat ..like that and he fills the universe ..perfect picture of a perfect sacrifice ..and what God should exist if one did ..the God in the Bible its main foundations explains clearly and perfectly why things are as they are and what logically and ingeniously needed to be done to fix it!
I think people do get a bit entangled with God creating and knowing all things and God creating and causing or controlling all things there is a big difference .If God was controlling all of it he would be responsible for both sin and good. God is in control so much as his will in the end will win out ..we write our own stories on this road just because he read the book already is meaningless.
Also knowing and understanding evil incomplete is NOT sin now you understand better how when we choose to use it to commit sin this is when we break his law not before.
Hopefully this covers the core of what GOD exists and why Christianity points so heavily to be the correct cure for our sin and this worlds!
Ok we now get a little into doctrine ..I use this as a foundation for people of faith and people without faith . I tended to always question this..when someone asks what happens to joe shmoe or his relative john doe if they are on an island and perish never having heard of Jesus and therefor cannot have accepted Christ as his savior does he go to hell ..and I have always heard yes he could not accept so does not go .. Well the bible versus I go by directly makes that statement false. 1 Peter 3 18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19After being made alive,d he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
This scripture written niv shows that even though Noah warned these people they did not heed it died and yet Christ after his death in spirit witnessed to them . so joe shmoe and john doe should fall into this category unless god became less fair over the years ..
Next what of them that do not believe will not believe and yet would if they saw? surely these are damned ..ah no not according to scripture as a matter of fact it seems pretty clear the ones to fear are those that turned their backs on him after hearing and coming to an understanding . A perfect example of the above is the apostle Thomas that did not believe Christ had risen and would not believe unless he saw
John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Understand this these are Apostles of Christ telling Thomas who knows them well that Christ is alive and yet he will not believe! ..
Now he sees Christ and does Christ damn him for not believing?NO! instead he says Blessed are they that have not seen and yet still believe ..this is the difference what is the blessing these that believe without seeing ..possibly a head start to a better life inside the changes the prayers all of the package the christian experiences now ..this is a possibility
Johin 20:26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed
So God judges the heart plain and simple he does not cast babies into hell because they could not choose Christ he does not through an honest with themselves human into the fire because they could not believe in what amounts to them like the tooth fairy or Santa clause! I am not saying these humans are good as we all know we are all fallen I am saying that God is far more merciful then is thought and fair.
When we gain knowledge of the bible and apply this knowledge with pureness of spirit and seek honestly that we ourselves could have been someone due to life experience and upbringing to not believe ..see we need to understand that God will give ALL of humanity the same fair chance to accept and believe and if the saying is true that "he would none should perish" then of course he would apply the same fairness on everyone and take into account upbringing and situations and even if we have given up on someone God has far more patience than we and only he can know when its time to quit on someone.
So if Joe or John never got the chance to receive Christ why on earth would anyone think they are doomed to hell for all eternity especially when there are examples of the opposite even examples of denying christ was forgiven DO you actually think the story of peter and him Denying Christ and then being forgiven was put in the bible for no reason?!
This means we need to rethink what it means to deny Christ before man and he will deny us before his father in heaven ..maybe this denying has a deeper meaning and is not a one moment action? people take the scripture as face value and do not use other scriptures to understand what is meant by it or others ..
let me say this ..when Christ says we are dead in sin WE ARE DEAD! so how can a dead person accept anything and say they believe or any of that in the spirit unless there is a time that God himself makes us alive to choose or he chooses us however you want to look at it.. dead have been able to choose we who are dead have been made alive and others who were physically dead were able to make a choice as well .. people debate over if Christ actually went to the underworld ..I say yes because it makes sense of a fair God to witness to the captives that had no chance to accept christ ..and the wording is used differently which is why the NIV clarified this scripture .
The scripture there is therefor no more sacrifice for those that willfully sin ..some preachers use this scripture to back up the damnable doctrine of loosing your salvation .. when what is meant by the wrath of god in this situation is judgement for those sins the way a father punishes a son .. ALL have willfully sinned so All would be without salvation if that scripture was to be taken at face value
How can anyone serve and love a God at gun point? especially with a spirit gun that once shot it gets you for eternity ..you will NEVER gain the love and will serve and start to serve from shear terror and this iwll remain in you for a long time to come till you feel you are good enough and serving enough to not "deserve" hell .. or you realize hell was never going to be in your future in which case it was a lie and you did not have to fear it while you served god ..
This loss of salvation is the biggest lie told by the devil to MAKE people so stressed and worried and effect their walk with GOD when you have to do things to make sure you keep your salvation you fall short and always will fall short ..one day oh I am saved the next damn I am not saved I got angry the next gee if only I did not do that I would have been totally saved .. We as a people Judge humans are judgmental beings no matter if they have religion or not .. we judge others much more harshly than ourselves as well .. so we do not like to feel that punishment is not coming to so and so for what they have done ..
when you understand what JESUS has done you will understand why these people have far more forgiveness given to them than we allow them to have ..fear in people want to say salvation is earned because we as a people think for some reason a person that believes this will go aon a sinning rampage! This is so far from the truth ..some may slip up but so will those that think they can lose their salvation .. but God will hold tightly to those that have accepted him with love and innocence only those that accept out of fear you cannot know if they have accepted him in a way pleasing to God he does not want us to serve out of have to ..yes those people do believe in the pushing aspect of God for doing wrong ..but like they also could very well fall in the category of what the scripture says "even the devils believe and they fear" ..I am fairly certain to come to the knowledge of salvation is suppose to be re leaving when you accept and know you are eternally saved and want to show how much you love him back by doing what he wants and there by serving him in the way salvation was designed to do ..and if this type of serving of God is the right way and I KNOW it is then GOD is not going to make salvation up to you and your work to keep this gift which is of spirit and not of flesh that can be given back!
These types of scripture twisting controlling people are in churches to the highest level taking away our freedoms given by GOD they are fearful to allow us to live our lives in a away that GOD intended this fear stemming from them thinking we will run amuck and sin carefree. Take Marriage for instance . These people seems to have worked to no end to make marrage mean you registered with the state stood in front of whoever has the "power" to do this marrying and presto you are now married and God is pleased! ..Well you do NOT need man at all to marry! scriptually you do not need that nor morally ..Ministers DO NOT teach what they should about marriage! IF a couple has sex in plain english they are MARRIED!! and any minister that knows of a couple teens having sex and not telling them they are married is wrong and doing a dis service to church and community ..by saying stop in this situation and refrain and this couple breaks up and marries "officially" others is a terrible thing how bad is it that because society put a different age on what is old enough to marry or be called a man that it makes sin abound due to fear of outcome the very out come these people attempt to prevent in ways not sound biblicaly wise radiates sin outward to us all and society ..the Devil works hardest in churches and doctrine to bring lasting destruction to a society that allows him to do this!
rather let each MAN have his own Wife ..a man was not 18yrs old men were men younger and women were women younger ..and the natural tendency for men and women is to procreate and fall in love ..to hold this back by numbers is ridiculous and not of God! if they are having sex they are free to be with only each other and they eyes of the church should know those couples are married and should help them stay together ..this society has it backwards ! The church has this backwards and the ministers that know this and do and say nothing are under judgment of God they do not know why their church is not growing why prayers do not feel like they are being answered why they feel their walk with God is not where it should be. DO WHAT IS RIGHT! no salvation is not lost from this wrong BUT blessings are ! There are customs in the bible that do indeed indicate ceremony however those customs developed with culture there for sex before marriage can be said however before culture sex before marriage is not because sex menat marriage in the early days with no one to hold ceremony .. take now a marriage that a woman cheats on her husband continues in the relationship and moves on to another relationship ..and you still need a divorce in order to in some peoples opinion not commit sin by seeing another woman ... so years pass and how can you contain if you needed a wife to begin with?! but because of paper work and someone holding out on signing and other factors you meet someone else and now looked at like you are sinning away ..THIS IS TOTAL LUNACY no God would EVER subject someone to such anti biblical laws their was never ever a need to have to wait and get some god damn signature from your stoned to death for adultery wife because yes she would be dead by rocks thrown at her from your village lol ..
so this paperwork was never meant to be for those that had been cheated on ! .. this holds back ceremonial marriage rituals which is eye candy ..the point is you need you your woman and God for a marriage! you need to separate truth from rituals. To make my points to myself less confusing i break it down to the simplest form ..IF a man and a woman are alone on an island with no one around to perform a marriage ceremony ..and they choose to have a family and have sex and be a couple arent they married by God or is it all the days of their lives they are sinning with pre marital sex? this makes absolutely NO SENSE for it to be a sin ..therefore because there are scriptures that show people have been called husband and wife without a ceremony I am going on the limb and state it is still that way today! here is a nice little factoid for those that have been lied too
Question: "What does the Bible say about sex before marriage?"
Answer:
There is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that precisely refers
to sex before marriage. The Bible undeniably condemns adultery and
sexual immorality, but is sex before marriage considered sexually
immoral? According to 1 Corinthians 7:2,
“yes” is the clear answer: “But since there is so much immorality, each
man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.” In this
verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality. First Corinthians 7:2
is essentially saying that, because people cannot control themselves
and so many are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should
get married. Then they can fulfill their passions in a moral way.
what is sexual immorality here being spoke of? I disagree with this above persons quote as to what the sexual immorality was ..why? Because Paul states because of so much sexual immorality every man must have his OWN wife and every woman her OWN husband . it appears that some people could have been having more than ONE or their OWN sexual mate or Husband/wife .. and this would be in agreement with the fact that some had no ceremony and were called husband or wife in the old testament ..before ceremonies were ever MADE UP bu society ..
so if SEX was marriage then it makes sense that the apostles and profits would not talk of sex before marriage not at least untll the ceremony that says you are married was made .
Now re pondering the crucifixion..The bible says this
2 corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Ok I see if we see Jesus as sin on the cross it is put to death however I think this does not capture the underlying effect of how spiritually the cross works ..such as if jesus was made sin then he would justly be put to death and justly belong in hell and no resurrection ..Now if however he became sin in a way that was every stirke and hit nail and such was put on him and allowed by God to allow sin to put christ to death and in turn kill itself on the cross for breaking the law of the wages of sin is death and now Christ gaining power over sin and death and hell and filling the universe with him IE removing the incomplete the natural less than evil that is present all of this flows naturally and convincingly and logically how that sacrafice worked .. I question the exact wording of this scripture and will look in the greek and also maybe we do not quite get the wording or even the people doing the sacraficing not quite understanding exactly how it works ..see the thing is God needs to be fair and how is it fair if he allows a crime to ge sinless ..if you murder it is sin HOW MUCH more if you murder the son of GOd a perfect being! Now I get a prayer father forgive them for they know not what they do ..well you still need to place the blame on something a balance so if you place the blame on evil inspiring a sinful act and hold no man charge this would feel right ..YES this is what i needed the 2nd interpretation is it meant Christ was a sin offering and NOW it works
Paul has one Scripture that some believe teaches that Christ took our
sins and was punished for them by being our substitute, although it does
not explicitly state that Christ took upon Himself man's sins. Paul
wrote that God "made [Jesus] to be sin for us, who knew no sin" (II
Corinthians 5:21). The statement that Jesus was made "to be sin for us"
is difficult to understand. There are two interpretations of this verse.
One interpretation holds that God made Christ to be "sin" by imputing
man sin's to Him. The second interpretation is that "to be sin" refers
to an alternate meaning of hamartia found in the Greek Old Testament the
apostles and early church used, that means Christ's death was a
"sin-offering." We will discuss the first interpretation below, and the
second in the next section.
This 2nd definitions is consistant with the bibles sacrifices of old ...
In the author's opinion, the second interpretation of II Corinthians 5:21 mentioned in the preceding section [see the book], that Jesus was made "to be a sin-offering for us," is correct. Sin-offering is an alternate meaning of hamartia found in the Greek Old Testament. Since the apostles and the church at Corinth mainly used the Septuagint, they undoubtedly understood that hamartia could mean a sin-offering. This was not an ambiguous, obscure, or hard to understand passage for those Greek Christians who received this letter, or other early Christians who read it later.AMEN!
http://www.bibleviews.com/2cor521.html
this is what we naturally see how Jesus was a replacement and now we also see how it works in the spiritual sense and why it works and how come Christ received things for this and how he really indeed earned the right!!! its awesome I am literally excited about this because this information here I see that it finally does indeed PROVE why Christianity is the truth ..if you believe in any god believe in the one of the bible it ALL adds up perfectly and now we can SEE why this sacrifice of him was the only way ..and how it eradicates sin perfectly!
Okay so convinced of what God and Jesus the Sacrifice that HAD to be in order for sin to be naturally removed it makes perfect sense. nature fits what we read and pain suffering coming from sin by man violence and lack of caring to nature and its turmoil with weather and possibly beasts? anyhow .. this places truth securely on the old and new testament. Now we can go through prophecies and things that happened in the bible with vigor and understanding of the truth of the core of the bible and maybe now that you understand how a IF GOD and IF sin then a perfect being would by rite HAVE to resurrect and would indeed be entitled to all the things handed over to him! Believing tha core and seeing it matches up its not a stretch to believe other miracles of the bible and we still can pull examples of real life things that are documented which can back up other things of the bible and by documented I man medically and science can say no miracle or explain the miracle part away because a natural physical thing happened but that does not take a way the intent of this natural physical thing happening it happened and produced a point it cured it healed you know a purpose for what ever power made it happen. This is page is still not quite in order however I have to say that because 80% of the population believe in some God ..and it was not until science and evolution that somehow without evidence against a GOD which most believed in before these people became as important a figure in our everyday lives .. they then place the burden of proof on us though it this proof was passed down and because there is no video tapes or things to capture on record these proofs good mens word do not count ..however since the bible has in it things that can be figured out and logically fit in clearly I say my belief is not against science by building small logical arguments for the existence of God of a bible God ..God said the world was formed in water and by water and now science is seeing that rocks are forming by water ..lucky guess by the bible? this was not the flood water referred to but the creation from the start ..this water has been there the waters were pulled together and formed seas and the dry land appeared . this fits all of the water being seen now ..
Now we can understand How there can be sinful beings deserving judgement .. why is their no forgiveness for the Devil and followers? first the Sacrifice was performed by the flesh of man for man . 2nd the Devil and followers had the best possible scenario to not sin They were in the know so to speak ..very much as the verse of scripture says of human beings . there is therefore no further sacrifice for those that willfully sin ..you cannot sacrifice Christ a new .. these wait fearfully for the wrath of God to fall upon them .. understand punishment will happen for us who understand what sin is and do it anyway. The devil and co understood exactly what they were doing that sin cannot be covered even if Christ had died. It is a hard thing however some questions that are not fully answered now will be hopefully you have a taste of the answer through these words ..and maybe one day god will fully reveal this answer while we are still alive ..
the point is the question of how can their be sin and yet a perfect God is answered this question tormented me and allot of others over a long period of time ..the question of why a sacrifice had been perplexing for a long span of time ..the scripture that stated I have created both good and evil ..has been argued over for a while understanding what evil is and is meant that evil is not a sin it is a tool only and can inspire bi polar effects good and evil and is connected to a very physical chaos this chaos allows pure freedoms to do good or bad to use free will ..it all interconnects the spiritual does reflect into the physical we just do not see it as clearly as what we do in the physical.
In the physical realm Chaos allows movement motion vibrations of all sorts (vibrations are movements I classify anything moving as movement) this motion can be classified as patterns or chaotic no patterns . rigid movement would make things mathematically accurate such as a second being infinite as the case with blackholes the chaos iets reigned in by gravity or extreme pressures if you will .. as this grip loosens time flows freer and we begin moving through time if we did not have chaos movement through time would not be occuring..freedom would be lost.
again look at this example the more we know the more free we are to do what we know ..if we had only 1 thought allowed then we would be predictable and forced even though we feel free will we can only do that one thing because that one thing is all we know to do..maybe we have a choice to do it or not ..either way you get the point . now add a few things and choices and we are freer more and more we become more and more unpredictable ..without chaos we can not attain this ..chaos is unstructured we structure it for our free will to use it how we feel ..chaos is similar to light that has not yet reflected from a tree and have an image for us to decode ..its just a blank slate so to speak ..we give image to chaos in a sense by structuring events we take a ball that could be thrown in any direction and we throw it from point A to point B structuring the could have beens into a known ..chaos is our fuel a tool ..
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